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Last week handmaiden Sheridan sent me a scientific article about why the trash compactor in the Death Star from Star Wars wouldn’t have worked. Something about how the Empire wouldn’t care about compacting trash, and if the Dia Noga (the creature with the tentacles) could survive in there, it couldn’t be a very good design. And why would it have two walls that closed in, rather than having it crush from all sides?
This article reminded me of a spirited discussion among the family one Thanksgiving, about how many DeLoreans there actually were at one time in 1955 in Back to the Future. I believe we came up with 3, though my cousin maintained that it was only one, because each use sent events onto a new, independent timeline.
On the one hand, I dislike discussions like this, because, well, I sometimes write things that don’t make sense on extra close examination, and I hate it when people discover them – and even worse, point them out. Yes, I know that the hero’s odds of guessing in which direction the heroine fled are only one in four, and that given the prevailing wind at that time of year, he couldn’t possibly have caught a scent of her perfume. But it sounds AWESOME, and so I risked defying the facts.
On the other hands, I love discussions like this, because I’ve always felt that while a movie or book doesn’t have to follow real reality, it has to follow its own reality. And if you can debate it and find arguments within the story to support or deny any events or objects or whatever, then the author’s succeeded in entertaining and intriguing and transporting me.
Do you like to find bits and pieces of books and movies and debate their logic? Or do you take
the movie or book as a whole and accept the logic the author has created? And what if the author breaks her or his own rules? What’s the point where it’s too crazy to keep tolerating? And how many darned DeLoreans made it to 1955?
I asked my house mate who is nuts about the movie Back to the Future and he says that there is 5 cars that make it back to 1985. As for the rest, well I do believe in quite a bit of the things talked about in The X Files so I don’t question much. What I do question though is why I keep getting asked daft questions by my house mate and why is he incapable of doing simple things like making his bed and flushing the loo if he needs to go late at night. Seriously, guys are weird.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 5:39 am.
Wait, FIVE cars, Kelly? This is going to be cause for a reopening of the infamous Thanksgiving debate. *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:51 am.
Please don’t blame me, blame it all on Sci Fi Guy. *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 4:07 pm.
crud.
I thought I had a thought provoking comment ready about Terminator time travel, but my brain suddenly stopped. I need coffee. it is too early to be thinking. I’ll be back later.
mock me if you want want.
I am a bag of rocks this week. and it’s only Wednesday.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:47 am.
I would *never* mock someone who hadn’t had enough coffee… that’s dangerous! I hope the week gets a little less rocky for you.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:50 am.
Oooh, get some coffee, Kathy. I love talking about the Terminator timelines.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:52 am.
When reading, I’ll accept the author’s logic. When watching a film, no way.
There was a Ryan Gosling thriller that I couldn’t focus on because he was young and drove a vintage car with very old California plates. Sure he could buy a vintage car, but obsolete plates? Possible but not probable.
And don’t film in Newark airport with its signature architecture and tell me it’s another city. Takes me out of the story but not when I’m reading.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 7:34 am.
Oh, Fresh, I think maybe you’re just crazy. *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:53 am.
As the movie progressed, I appreciated that Ryan could have been driving a milk carton and I wouldn’t have noticed.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:57 am.
I never considered the DeLorean question. But IV and I pick apart every movie we watch, which means we watch more and more at home.
We recently watched BRIDESMAIDS, and while we both enjoyed it, that the movie took place in Milwaukee gave us a TON to talk about. For instance, what cop goes to a bar with his uniform on and begins to drink? None I know of. We figured the moviemakers thought this happened in Wisconsin a lot considering the amount of taverns.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 8:48 am.
I do the same thing with movies set in SoCal. Some of those are definitely set on a different plane of existence than the one I’m presently occupying.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:54 am.
It depends on the genre. I am less forgiving when reading contemporary novels than historical. As for movies, I am one of the dolts that can throw myself in completely and question nothing, just be pulled along for the ride. I know if I like it or not, but usually it has to do with thinking Reese Whitherspoon is too old to be the lead with Robert Pattinson. You know, important stuff.
I can hardly even remember Back to the Future. Isn’t that sad?
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 8:59 am.
Julia – I so agree with this! I saw SOUTH PACIFIC in 2002 when Robert Goulet was part of the cast. He was nearly 70 years old and although his voice was amazing – I could not get passed his age. Important stuff indeed!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:38 am.
Julia, I’m the same way while I’m watching a movie. It’s only the really big, basic things that make me go, “huh?” Afterwards, though, watch out — but I’m much more forgiving the more I enjoyed the show.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:57 am.
I’m a take it as you see/hear it girl. I read and watch movies to be entertained. Part of that, for me, is enjoying the improbable. If the hero can follow the heroine by smelling her perfume (I may have the passing sarcastic throught that she’s wearing too much…), but I enjoy the story line. It adds to the entertainment value!
Have a good day!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:18 am.
Absolutely, Haley. For some books and movies, all I demand is to be entertained.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:58 am.
I wholeheartedly jump into the author’s logic if I am reading romance. If he can RECOGNIZE her scent then why not catch a whiff of it? I would rather be swept away than pull myself back into reality and wonder HUH?
This does not hold true of most other fiction or movies. I can be a very harsh critic – especially when I catch an editing/continuity error.
I think I agree with the one DeLorean theory. There should have been one car that kept traveling through time. But it is only 9:30AM and I could change my mind before lunch!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:28 am.
Yes, because otherwise what if the cars have a head-on collision while they’re flying through time? Could happen! Back to the Future 5, maybe?
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:51 am.
LOL, kez. The argument gets really complicated when there are two Marty’s in 1955, and then the one waiting in the mine to be recovered in Episode III, and then… Oh, I’m getting a headache.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm.
I am up for anything in a book, within reason. If its something that is just too obvious then it upsets me. Movies are a totally different story. My husband is worse than I am about picking apart a movie, I almost cannot stand to watch a movie with him anymore! LOL We are especially harsh on anything with forensics, police and cars blowing up because they crashed…this doesn’t happen in real life.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:44 am.
LOL, Rhiannon — but the explosions look so pretty. *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:01 pm.
I agree – I’d never considered the DeLorean question, but the trash compacter in the Death Star article sounds HILARIOUS! I’d love to have the link to that!
My sister is pretty darn picky about that sort of thing, although I don’t really worry too much. She actually was a little miffed at the Pixar movie UP, because when the house lifted up off the foundation she wanted to know what happened to the ground wire and all the pipes!! So funny…
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:50 am.
LOL!!! Because surrre, that’s the only thing that was unrealistic about the movie. If they had shown burst pipes and dangling wires, she could totally have believed it. Love that!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:03 am.
I KNOW!! The talking dogs were TOTALLY believable!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:32 am.
You guys made me snort.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:02 pm.
Squirrel?
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:40 pm.
I love to watch a movie just to escape and let your amagination soar.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:23 am.
I do too, Gail! I just get miffed if while I’m watching something makes me go, “what?” and then thud, I hit the ground.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:03 pm.
The thing I always wanted to know about that trash compactor is why there was a creature in there in the first place. There were no foodstuffs, just mechanical junk – and wouldn’t he be squished when the compactors started? And if he DID eat space junk and lived in the compactor, how did the water stay in there for him to swim around while still giving him an outlet to escape when they smooshed everything. AND the water is only knee deep.. so trash monster did not have a lot of room to splash around – yet Luke couldn’t manage to pop an arm up or something when it took him under????
I am good with suspending disbelief in most cases, but some things pique my curiosity or are just too much. Like that Angelina Jolie movie (with James McAvoy – the only reason I kept watching) where they “bend the bullet” – total rubbish and bugged me.
And action movies where the hero has jumped out of a plane, fallen from a 4 story building, gotten his butt kicked by a herd of thugs and still manages to chase down a car and shoot out a tire from 1/4 mile away while doing it.
Don’t get me wrong, a good actor and fun plot can make me forgive these things (like in Taken.. Liam almost made it tolerable) – but if those aren’t there… I’ll start nitpicking that bad boy to pieces.
I do better with books. I think books have to spend more time on fleshing out the story, characters and other things whereas movies just need to blow a lot of crap up to please the audience.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:44 am.
Oh, Sheridan, don’t you know Star Wars took place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away? Their space logic is different than ours. And the Dia Noga used the Force to escape the compacting. Yep, that’s what it was.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:06 pm.
And what about movie parking? Always in NYC, the lead manages to park right outside their apartment. That’s Science Fiction with capital letters.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:22 pm.
Same in LA!! and where is the change for all the meters??
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm.
I’m willing to go along for the ride with the world the author has created, but my suspension of belief fails when she breaks her own rules. It pulls me out of the story.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:49 am.
Absolutely, Susan. As long as the author/director plays by the set of rules they’ve established, I’ll go along with it, too.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:07 pm.
If the writing is good, I accept the world the author has created. It is fiction, after all, and I’m not invested in the mechanics of a trash compacter, I’m invested in the story. A good writer will insure the investment is in the story itself, not the minutia. That said, it only takes one really sudden “Huh?” moment to ruin everything. The trick to good Sci-Fi is not possibility but plausibility. If it can be made plausible, it can be made acceptable. Once we leave plausibility behind, we’ve tread into fantasy territory, and that’s a whole different realm.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:06 am.
That is the perfect way to put it, Gwyn. I agree wholeheartedly.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:08 pm.
Which is supported by the fact that so many of STAR TREK’s gadgets are now part of our reality!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm.
I can usually suspend disbelief in books, but movies are a little harder, just depending on the genre. If it’s science fiction, I can usually just go along for the ride.
I have to say though…there are some that take their nitpicking to an unhealthy extreme. For example, with the re-release of Titanic, it has been changed to reflect the ‘correct’ star pattern at that time in history because some ‘star guy’ got his knickers in a twist because the constellations were incorrect when Rose is on the floating door looking up at the stars after the sinking. Seriously?? Good grief. I guess Cameron got tired of that particular squeaky wheel because it was corrected for the anniversary release.
I still remember when we went to see National Treasure with my brother-in-law. He was in the Navy and had worked in Washington DC for several years and knew the roads like the back of his hand. So, when we are in the theater and watching the movie, he’s griping that this building should be on the left, and that one should be behind this one, etc. The hub and I are thinking we should have left him at home….
Personally, that movie was very fun to watch because it piqued my interest and had a lot of fun historical things thrown in (and Sean Bean didn’t hurt, either, LOL).
Hmmmm…DeLorean’s in 1955. I think I could see the logic in both statements. Going back in time each time would alter the timeline, however if that was the case, then wouldn’t Marty not have to worry about running into himself, either? I would also tend to agree that it could be three…the one old Biff brought back, the one where Marty was Calvin, and the one where spy Marty was trying to get the book back.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:51 am.
Oh, wait! I forgot about the old Biff car. Add that to spy Marty car, Calvin car, and old West stored in the mine car, and that makes FOUR. Oy. *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:11 pm.
See, I forgot about the old West stored in the mine car!
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:42 pm.
I sooooo depend. See, I read basically two things – Romances and Astronomy/Astrophysics related books. So when it comes to the second on there, it can depend.
Star Trek I have no problem with because it’s mostly dependent on real ideas as a basis for the stories, but maybe go into a more fictional direction to make it more exciting. But when it comes to that or Star Wars, it’s not so much the science, but the stories about the people that drive it. The X-Files too, but there, was made (at least Seasons 1-5) good was it also was based on a real idea (whether you believe it or not, aliens and abductions are ideas out there). After season 6, sure it could still be scary or whatnot, but it got away from a more reality based idea. But still, even there, it was more about the people.
If you have a movie that is based more on the science, and the science really sucks, I just can’t get into it. Can’t think of the title of that one Mars movie I saw, but anyway, couldn’t deal with it. LOL
Lois
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:40 pm.
I loved the first 5 seasons of “The X-Files”, and then I think they broke their own rules. I just couldn’t go along for the ride anymore after that. Good example, Lois.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:03 pm.
I’m very accepting of an author’s world building as long as everything in the world stays true to itself. If the characters act out of character, that’s bad.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:44 pm.
Exactly, Claudia. If they do something out of character, there had better be a darned good reason for it (which of course would make it still in character).
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:05 pm.
I’m pretty sure that it’s 4 DeLoreans because at one point my son owned every possible of Back to the Future DeLorean. As the he’d watch the movies, he’d switch out the DeLoreans.
Living with a filmmaker, even if he works in animation, it’s inevitable for a movie to be taken apart because he can see all the weaknesses — or what he perceives to be a weakness – in the story. There are times when I’m ok with it, but then there are times when I just want to suspend my disbelief and enjoy it.
What takes me out of a book or movie, is when the author or filmmaker breaks the rules that they established in their world.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm.
I think there are four DeLoreans too, Janae.
I think I’m the same way with books that your dh is with movies. I tend to read more critically than I used to — and I love a book that can make me forget to be critical and analytical for awhile.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm.
Ok… so you all are good with the movies and tv shows where everytime someone goes to a store or restaurant… there’s always a parking space RIGHT THERE IN FRONT??…
Am I the only person who drives around the block 8 times looking for some sort of parking?
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 3:56 pm.
LOL, Cate. I’m okay with it as long as the always-previously-reliable car actually starts on the first try when the zombies come.
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:08 pm.
I pretty much go with the flow, unless something just jumps out as illogical. Like in NCIS, why do they use flashlights when they enter a dark house or building that is empty? Why not just turn on the lights?
I would have never noticed the perfume in your book being illogical, is my guess.
Now, when it comes to courtroom dramas, I do have to put up with DH’s dissection of how they are getting it wrong–procedure, the law itself, etc etc etc. (Just shut up and watch the show, already!)
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 5:29 pm.
I always wonder that too, Madeline! Why the heck can’t they just open the curtains or turn on a light or something! *g*
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:09 pm.
I’m a go with the flow person, too. But, well . . . I have limits. Everyone has limits. A lot of what I’ll believe has to do with the craftsmanship of the author or director. If it FEELS believable, then I’m there.
But when it comes to movies about magic, I want to believe in it so much that I don’t want ANYONE to question it. Not. One. Bit. It IS because I SAY SO. (Heh!)
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:51 pm.